<bitcoin-git>
[bitcoin] davidgumberg opened pull request #32400: random: Use modern Windows randomness functions (master...5-1-25-winbcrypt) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32400
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<vasild>
Technically, I am in favor of "3) Remove limits entirely (~Peter Todd's PR)". IMO that is the correct technical decision. However this has become political now. Enforcing the correct technical decision on disagreeing people is not politically correct. Now, if those disagreeing are a loud minority, what would making this configurable do? I guess it would make them happy and wouldn't have an impact
<vasild>
network-wide. That sounds technically and politically correct to me.
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<Murch[m]>
Giving people a knob to turn that doesn't do anything useful and just harms them is kinda wrong
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<_aj_>
Murch[m]: does the person turning the knob get a say in whether they consider it to be harming them?
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<vasild>
"doesn't do anything useful and just harms them" According to who? According to you. And according to me too. But apparently some people disagree with us. And then we are headed towards enforcing our opinion (which is correct according to us) over disagreeing people.
<_aj_>
to some extent i think that's okay: it's "our" software, so its design should reflect "our" judgement/opinions on what makes sense. but if the idea is to be global and decentralised, you want the "us" there to be a pretty broad group, which might include people who want to do things that seem a bit stupid. for me, i guess the border line is more about how much complexity letting people "be a bit
<_aj_>
stupid" requires; if it's not much, then be a broad church. if it's a lot, then let them maintain a fork.
<_aj_>
(well, all that assumes they're not being completely obnoxious about it; if they are, that's a whole other story)
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<vasild>
yeah, I was just thinking about that - if Bitcoin Core is a typical software project, then its developers are dictators and do as they see fit. Disagreeing people are free to fork it and change it according to their taste.
<vasild>
That's how it is with typical open source projects.
<bitcoin-git>
[bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #32405: build: replace header checks with `__has_include` (master...use_has_include) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32405
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<bitcoin-git>
[bitcoin] instagibbs opened pull request #32406: policy: uncap datacarrier by default (master...2025-05-uncap_datacarrier) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32406
<instagibbs>
fanquake please lock for now ^
<instagibbs>
dank
<instagibbs>
oof I can't even edit the OP, github so good
<instagibbs>
(fine for now)
<_aj_>
haha, i can add a label despite the lock! now i just need to publish a way of inscribing comments via github label edits
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<Sjors[m]>
instagibbs: maybe add a warning that this setting can slow down block propagation. And not just deprecated, but not recommended.
<Sjors[m]>
It allows for the same test simplifications as the original PR, so that's nice.
<Sjors[m]>
I'm not a political analyst so no strong opinion on whether this is a wise way to handle brigading. But it fixes the original problem and, with those warnings, makes it clear enough that we don't recommend using this.
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<dzxzg>
I agree with #32406 and think it's a much less incendiary solution than #32359, and all of the technical merits that I see weigh on the side of removing OP_RETURN standardness limits. Decisions must be guided by the conclusions of the people that spend their time thinking about and working on the project, not whether or not those decisions incite vocal subcultures to brigade.
<dzxzg>
I agree with #32406 and think it's a much less incendiary solution than #32359, and all of the technical merits that I see weigh on the side of removing OP_RETURN standardness limits. Decisions must be guided by the conclusions of the people that spend their time thinking about and working on the project, not whether or not those decisions incite vocal subcultures to brigade.
<dzxzg>
But, I want to raise a tiny flag of caution, not necessarily for this case but in general, just as there is a cost in giving in to every raging faction that bursts in screaming, there is a risk in ignoring every such faction. While irrelevant to the technical merits of a proposal, I believe those risks should be measured against the tangible benefits of action/inaction. I think it is critical that if there is something important, the project should
<dzxzg>
stand it's ground, but I don't think being right for the sake of being right is an important enough reason.
<dzxzg>
(Sorry for double-pasting)
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<instagibbs>
in the functional tests looks like tests fail if an InitWarning is triggered, is that something we don't want to happen in a test?
<instagibbs>
I guess the other stuff just LogInfo's, I'll do that...