<bitcoin-git>
bitcoin/master 98e9d8e MarcoFalke: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#23732: refactor: Remove `gArgs` from `bdb.h` and `sq...
bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev [#bitcoin-core-dev]
<bitcoin-git>
bitcoin/master 39b1763 Kiminuo: Replace use of `ArgsManager` with `DatabaseOptions`
bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
<bitcoin-git>
[bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #23732: refactor: Remove `gArgs` from `bdb.h` and `sqlite.h` (master...feature/2021-12-02-db-without-gArgs-base) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23732
bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev [#bitcoin-core-dev]
<laanwj>
adding frequent contributors to the organization is purely practical, so that they appear in the list and can be assigned issues / reviews, this is useful when they take part in collaborative development, it is not a judgement of people or their employer or whatever
shesek_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev [#bitcoin-core-dev]
BUSY has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
shesek_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shesek_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
sudoforge has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
sipsorcery has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
dermoth has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
<bitcoin-git>
[bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #24656: refactor: Move mempool RPCs to rpc/mempool (master...2203-more-mempool-🍢) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24656
bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev [#bitcoin-core-dev]
bitdex has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
bitdex has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
dermoth has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
shesek_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shesek_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
shesek_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shesek_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
shesek_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shesek_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
kexkey has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
kexkey has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
sipsorcery has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
shesek_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shesek_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
shesek_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shesek_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
realies has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
sipsorcery has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
shesek_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shesek_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
earnestly has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.4.1]
realies has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
shesek_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shesek_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
earnestly has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
shesek_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shesek_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
jarthur has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
mikehu44 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
jarthur has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
BUSY has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
shesek_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shesek_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
bitdex has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
<bitcoin-git>
[bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #24658: doc: mention that BDB is for the legacy wallet in build-netbsd.md (master...netbsd_descriptor_reorder) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24658
bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev [#bitcoin-core-dev]
bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev [#bitcoin-core-dev]
bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev [#bitcoin-core-dev]
bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
<bitcoin-git>
[bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #24658: doc: mention that BDB is for the legacy wallet in build-netbsd.md (master...netbsd_descriptor_reorder) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24658
bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev [#bitcoin-core-dev]
vysn has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
ghost43 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shesek_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev [#bitcoin-core-dev]
ghost43 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ghost43 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
<stickies-v>
Is anyone running a somewhat stable node on CJDNS and willing to somewhat commit to keep it up and running for a few weeks, until after RC testing is finished? There are already a few addresses listed in #23077 but since it's been a few months since that PR I'm not sure they're still in use, and of course the more the better to spread the load.
bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev [#bitcoin-core-dev]
shesek_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shesek_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
ghost43 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ghost43 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
csw has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
<csw>
hi
csw has quit [Quit: Client closed]
ghost43 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ghost43 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
<jonatack>
stickies: thanks for working on this! There have been only three CJDNS nodes that have been stable these past months. For the testing guide I would suggest using the ones added to the DNS seeds in #24166
bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev [#bitcoin-core-dev]
shesek_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
<stickies-v>
yeah I'll stick to those 3 working ones for now, but still if anyone's able to add to the pool that would be much appreciated to add some redundancy and load spreading
<jonatack>
yes, it's early days, more testing and feedback by people can be helpful, along with bootstrapping more bitcoin CJDNS nodes
cjd has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
<jonatack>
those three cjdns nodes have been solid though for me (well, the two that aren't mine)
<cjd>
Something I've wanted to do for a while is optional auto-introduction, like dns seeds
<cjd>
Guess a start would be to just try run a script that tries connecting to every node on a list and then marks them as up or down
bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev [#bitcoin-core-dev]
shesek_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shesek_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
<bitcoin-git>
[bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #24662: addrman: Use sytem time instead of adjusted network time (master...2203-add-🔍) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24662
bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev [#bitcoin-core-dev]
bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
<bitcoin-git>
[bitcoin] MarcoFalke reopened pull request #24662: addrman: Use sytem time instead of adjusted network time (master...2203-add-🔍) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24662
bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev [#bitcoin-core-dev]
<laanwj>
hello everyone, welcome to the weekly general #bitcoin-core-dev meeting
<sipa>
hi
<laanwj>
two topics have been proposed: Current thinking on when to deprecate and the deprecation process when deprecation is considered appropriate (michaelfolkson) and RC23.0 Testing Guide update (stickes-v)
<lightlike>
hi
<laanwj>
any last minute ones?
<michaelfolkson>
Please do stickies-v topic first
<laanwj>
michaelfolkson: ok, well, we'll start with high priority for review dsicussion as usual then stickies-v topic
<michaelfolkson>
Of course, yup
<laanwj>
#topic High priority for review
<core-meetingbot`>
topic: High priority for review
<stickies-v>
I still need to add instructions on arm-arm64-apple-darwin (cc hebasto) and even though consensus last week was that the RPC updates weren't super crucial to test in this guide, I might add some instructions if I have time. I'm still very much open to further changes to test, so please let me know if I missed anything you consider important?
<laanwj>
will take a look at it, thanks! do we need to add a link to it anywhere?
<michaelfolkson>
I was surprised that there was opposition to deprecating a RPC that appears to offer a subset of what another RPC offers
<laanwj>
usually we keep to two major releases for deprecation (say, RPC APIs), but there are some things with which to be much more careful around, like the legacy wallet
<sipa>
and it's always on a case-by-case basis weighing the benefits against the costs
<jeremyrubin>
i think if it is truly a subset we can just shim one functionality with the other new code and the overhead of having an RPC call itself is not huge
<laanwj>
support for old wallets is really important for obvious reasons, so the upgrade path for that has to be completely water tight
<MarcoFalke>
michaelfolkson: I'd say the process is (1) Decide on a case-by-case basis what should be deprecated (2) Decide on a case-by-case basis what should be deleted
ghost43 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<michaelfolkson>
The argument against having a timeline though is you don't give sufficient advance warning to users/downstream projects and creates issues that could be avoided. Presumably that is why achow101 has tried a timeline approach
<sipa>
Once we deprecate an RPC, the rule is generally 1 or 2 major releases.
<sipa>
But I think the point is that there isn't a fixed timeline about things, because it's always a case-by-case situation.
<MarcoFalke>
michaelfolkson: The timeline for the wallet already slipped, it is not something that users can rely on
<sipa>
E.g. the discussion around removing BDB/legacy wallet support is a very different one than the one around removing the misleading "addresses" RPC output field in getaddressinfo.
<michaelfolkson>
Right, I guess it is just about ensuring there is communication on what is planned
<sipa>
I don't think there's much to say here; there are a number of approaches we've used in the past... some of those may or may not be appropriate for future changes.
<sipa>
It all depends on what's on the line, and what is to be gained.
<jeremyrubin>
one point in favour of deprecation for this, is that in theory if someone is using it and they're updating their logic they might be helped by learning about the new functionalities
<michaelfolkson>
And nothing really to write up. Just case by case. The only thing that should maybe be done is communication on planned deprecation of legacy wallet
* MarcoFalke
reminds me of the "let's do a refactor-all-the-things week" discussion
<laanwj>
oh no
<michaelfolkson>
Staggered deprecations over multiple versions and good communication (mailing list, release notes etc) seem like good idea to me. But can't guarantee timelines
<michaelfolkson>
Ok, there isn't much more to be said then
<laanwj>
any other topics?
<jonatack>
I agree with an ad hoc approach (in general)
<jonatack>
for most of these kind of topics
<laanwj>
if there's nothign more to discuss it's time to close the meeting, thanks everyone for attending
<michaelfolkson>
Would it be worth putting in 23.0 release notes that there is the intention to deprecate the legacy wallet in a future version?
<michaelfolkson>
Or at least an issue open that seeks to do that?
<michaelfolkson>
I get it may never happen but advance warnings on things that could/are likely to happen seems smart
<achow101>
michaelfolkson: there are already plans in place for in software warnings about deprecation
<michaelfolkson>
Ok, yeah that's true
<michaelfolkson>
And someone stuck on an old version wouldn't necessarily read the release notes of 23.0
<michaelfolkson>
User/downstream project
<achow101>
do keep in mind that even if someone were to skip 3 years of releases, they would not necessarily find themselves SOL. There will be a migration tool that remains even after the removal of bdb and the legacy wallet
<MarcoFalke>
migratewallet would be a nice pull for hi-prio?
<achow101>
MarcoFalke: I currently have taproot psbt as my hi prio
<MarcoFalke>
ah
<michaelfolkson>
Others have two :)
<michaelfolkson>
Do we have any idea what downstream projects would be affected and rely on the Core wallet? I'm guessing not many
<achow101>
there are several which use the core wallet as a watchonly wallet
<achow101>
several of those have already moved to using descriptor wallets
<michaelfolkson>
Ok. I think if it were entirely down to me I'd want a mailing list post, indication in release notes of previous versions too. Just cover all bases. Can't be criticized then
<michaelfolkson>
But the deprecation warnings are probably most important
<michaelfolkson>
And the migratewallet tool being available well in advance (which it will be)
shesek_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shesek_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
gnaf has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
sudoforge has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
realies1 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
realies has quit [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)]
realies1 is now known as realies
<stickies-v>
Communication and warnings are essential but I think especially small dev teams tend to gloss over that sometimes. I think it would be helpful for downstream users to have a global RPC flag like `-testdeprecation` that lets RPCs behave as if the functionality is already removed. That's very easy for them to add to their automated test suites and quickly be informed of upcoming breaking changes that actually affect
<stickies-v>
them?
<sipa>
@[stickies-v] We have the opposite, there is an -deprecatedrpc=X that lets you bring back an RPC temporarily.
<bitcoin-git>
bitcoin/master 2b7a818 Jon Atack: net, init: assert each network reachability is true by default
<bitcoin-git>
bitcoin/master afdf2de Jon Atack: test: add CJDNS to LimitedAndReachable_Network unit tests
bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev [#bitcoin-core-dev]
<bitcoin-git>
bitcoin/master bd57dcb Jon Atack: test: hoist proxy out of 2 network loops in feature_proxy.py
bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev [#bitcoin-core-dev]
<bitcoin-git>
[bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #24205: init, test: improve network reachability test coverage and safety (master...network-reachability-assertion-and-testing) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/24205
<stickies-v>
Yeah that's true, but offering the tools to be proactive too seems helpful? Gives more time to migrate (or less time required for core to maintain, as per the case-by-case approach)
shesek_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shesek_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
<jonatack>
stickies-v: with the current approach they don't even need to pass a flag for their test suites to inform them ;)
<jonatack>
(i do like the current -deprecatedrpc= approach, modulo that we don't have the same -- yet -- for configuration options)
Talkless has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<stickies-v>
Hmm I don't get that. Isn't the current flow 1) communicate deprecation at some future version 2) at release of announced future version, enforce deprecation in API but add fallback via -deprecatedrpc 3) at some later version, remove -deprecatedrpc and remove logic altogether ?
<jonatack>
doc/JSON-RPC-interface.md#versioning
<jonatack>
upon a major version release, the release notes mention the deprecations, and on upgrading, an API client's test suite should provide feedback, with the possibility to workaround those temporarily by passing -deprecatedrpc= flags
<sipa>
@[stickies-v] 1 and 2 are the same
shesek_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shesek_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
<stickies-v>
ah okay thanks, I thought there was always at least 1 version between 1 and 2. Thanks for clearing up
shesek_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
NorrinRadd has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
rex4539 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
shesek_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shesek_ has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
NorrinRadd has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
NorrinRadd has quit [Client Quit]
rex4539 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
rex4539 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
shesek_ is now known as shesek
An0rak has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
bomb-on has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
<bitcoin-git>
[bitcoin] luke-jr closed pull request #16228: Bugfix: make check: Only run tests that were compiled (master...bugfix_raii_check_fail) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16228
bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev [#bitcoin-core-dev]
bitcoin-git has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
<bitcoin-git>
[bitcoin] luke-jr reopened pull request #16228: Bugfix: make check: Only run tests that were compiled (master...bugfix_raii_check_fail) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/16228
bitcoin-git has left #bitcoin-core-dev [#bitcoin-core-dev]
sipsorcery has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
sipsorcery has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
shesek has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shesek has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
ghost43 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ghost43 has joined #bitcoin-core-dev
ghost43 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]