achow101 changed the topic of #bitcoin-core-dev to: Bitcoin Core development discussion and commit log | Feel free to watch, but please take commentary and usage questions to #bitcoin | Channel logs: http://www.erisian.com.au/bitcoin-core-dev/, http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/ | Weekly Meeting Thursday @ 16:00 UTC | Meeting topics http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/proposedmeetingtopics.txt
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<sipa> phantomcircuit: "need" is a big word, but it would break assumptions that peers make
<bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] maflcko opened pull request #32880: ci: Avoid cd into build dir (master...2507-ci-less-cd) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32880
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<bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] maflcko opened pull request #32881: Turn rpcauth.py test into functional test (master...2507-test-rpcauth-fun) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32881
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<bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] HowHsu opened pull request #32882: index: remove unnecessary locater cleaning in BaseIndex::Init() (master...read-best-block) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32882
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<bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] tdb3 closed pull request #30713: rpc: add `relevant_blocks` to `scanblocks status` (master...relevant_blocks_in_scanblocks_status) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/30713
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<bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] vtjl10 opened pull request #32883: Rename `shuffled_indeces` to `shuffled_indices` in `rpc_packages.py` (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32883
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<phantomcircuit> sipa: the only thing i can think of like that is the og ibd algorithm, is that what you're thinking of?
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<sipa> phantomcircuit: i'm more thinking of all our tests which would break, by sending a ping and waitong for a pokg to know a node is done processing
<sipa> (not that that is a problem, but it's an indication of the kind of things can clearly be relied upon right now by peers)
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<sipa> lacking a formal specification of what the expected behavior of the P2P protocol is, i don't think this is something that can just be changed (at least not without a way to negotiate it as an optional thing)
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<phantomcircuit> sipa: what response do we even have for the block message?
<sipa> phantomcircuit: none, but responses to later messages can depend on it
<phantomcircuit> i can definitely see changing the orderr breaking a bunch of the functional networking tests
<phantomcircuit> like basically all of them right
<sipa> yes
<phantomcircuit> so in theory i could also just have multiptl message handling threads and try to reduce the lock contention on cs main by finding individual things locking it that don't need to
<phantomcircuit> like im pretty sure i can remove the lock from IsInitialBlockDownload with a handful of atomics
<phantomcircuit> tthe alternative is to dilligently identify all of the actual data in memory and reduce the scope of locks while ensuring no lock orderring issues... which um sounds harder
<sipa> lock annotations are pretty good these days, you'll have more effort convincing clang's analyser that a change is safe, than accidentally introducing a lock ordering issue
<sipa> but really, i think the way to go is a validation queue for tx/blocks like i suggested earlier
<sipa> that won't on itself give you more parallellism, but it means all effort to improve that will be localized in validation code, not spread everywhere
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<phantomcircuit> sipa: without a specific path to parallelism by doing that im afaird it'll make things more complicated, but not actually any faster
<sipa> well, yes, obviously
<sipa> but right now i don't even want to try reasoning about it
<sipa> at least things like validating multiple transactions in parallel seems pretty doable
<sipa> (individual transactions, received from different peers)
<sipa> and it would mean without any further changes that for example we can process and respond to ADDR or PING messages even while a block is being processed
<sipa> i'm considering working on something like this post-clustermempool, fwiw
<phantomcircuit> sipa: so that's what i thought to but there's enough random other things that acquire cs_main that the msghand thread ends up waiting until the blocks processed
<phantomcircuit> IsInitialBlockDownload being the one that im 99% sure can be lock free
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<sipa> well cs_main would move to validation, and net_processing would become independent of ot
<phantomcircuit> to test this i put ActivateBestChain in a background thread and ran it on a 10 minute timer, while it's running absolutely nothing will happen because it's holding the chainstate lock and cs_main
<phantomcircuit> yeah but doing that for the things that wouldn't be put in a queue seems like the first step
<sipa> anything that needs validation-related data structures (chainstate, headers, mempool, block tree) would need to go through the queue mechanism, effectively making it async, and letting validation decide when to process them
<phantomcircuit> we're accessing chainstate in places where the result can be pretty fuzzy, like IsIBD doesn't need to be absolutely correct, it's already an approximation
<sipa> right
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<sipa> my goal is reducing latency much more than increasing throughput, but i think it's a good step towards that too
<phantomcircuit> sipa: so do you think looking for things accessing chainstate which don't really need it is a good first step here?
<phantomcircuit> seems like ehem *atomic* improvements
<sipa> yeah, i don't think that on itself will gain us much
<sipa> but it'll be necessary anyway
<phantomcircuit> sipa: yeah that's what im thinking
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