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<bitcoin-git>
[bitcoin] MarcoFalke merged pull request #23300: test: Implicitly sync after generate*, unless opted out (master...2110-testSyncImp) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23300
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<bitcoin-git>
[bitcoin] MarcoFalke closed pull request #22567: test: Implicitly sync after generate* to preempt races and intermittent test failures (master...2107-testSync) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22567
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<bitcoin-git>
[bitcoin] MarcoFalke opened pull request #23474: test: scripted-diff cleanups after generate* changes (master...2107-testSync) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23474
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<bitcoin-git>
[bitcoin] brunoerg opened pull request #23475: wallet: add config to prioritize a solution that doesn't create change in coin selection (master...2021-11-coinselection-option) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23475
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<bitcoin-git>
bitcoin/master 79fd28c amadeuszpawlik: Adds verification step to Schnorr and ECDSA signing
<bitcoin-git>
bitcoin/master cb4adbd W. J. van der Laan: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#22934: Add verification to `Sign`, `SignCompact` and...
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<bitcoin-git>
[bitcoin] laanwj merged pull request #22934: Add verification to `Sign`, `SignCompact` and `SignSchnorr` (master...schnorr_sig) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22934
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<bitcoin-git>
[bitcoin] hebasto opened pull request #23476: ci, qa: Adjust timeouts per test instead of global `--timeout-factor` (master...211109-timeout) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23476
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<bitcoin-git>
[bitcoin] hebasto closed pull request #23476: ci, qa: Adjust timeouts per test instead of global `--timeout-factor` (master...211109-timeout) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23476
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<shiza>
fanquake wants documentation not to misled new users to berkelydb. That's a good idea.
<laanwj>
i did this in build-unix.md by moving the (descriptor wallet) paragraphs to the top
<laanwj>
that's fine, i just think it's too early to hide all of it away, and if you do, we're going to get a lot of complaines from people that can no longer open their wallet
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<sipa>
laanwj: it does feel rushed
<sipa>
i thought the plan wasn't to remove bdb wallets for a few years at least
<laanwj>
this is only about removing the documentation, but still, yes, it feels rushed to me too
<sipa>
right, i'm aware
<sipa>
it's not because new wallets will by default by sqlite, that we can say that bdb support is something most users don't need to care about anymore
<laanwj>
we have to acknowledge the fact that a lot of people will, for various reasons, still be using legacy wallets for a long time
<laanwj>
right
<shiza>
This doesn't remove the documentation, just demotes it to a file of its own.
<laanwj>
i just think it's too early for that, let's wait a major release
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<jnewbery>
it seems reasonable to me to collect the legacy wallet documentation into one place
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<sipa>
perhaps, but it's going as far as not even listing the libdb dependency anymore
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<sipa>
except under a one-sentence link "For information on the legacy wallet"
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<laanwj>
sipa: right, i think that's my problem with it
<laanwj>
not the idea of condensing documentation; i'd be first to agree there's a lot of duplication between the different unix-flavor instructions
<laanwj>
jnewbery: thanks, will take a look
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<fanquake>
Not just duplication, a lot of it is just outright misleading for new users / builders
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<fanquake>
“BDB is needed for wallet support” and similar is not correct. Anyone building Core today, shouldn’t have to care, or know about BDB.
<fanquake>
In that case I don’t see the problem with not listing the bdb dependency outright, as it’s not going to be relevant to anyone reading the docs for the first time.
<earnestly>
(Another concern is the version of it)
<fanquake>
None of this is helped by the confusing reference to wallets by about 4 different names. BDB wallets vs legacy wallets vs SQLite wallets vs descriptor wallets vs just “the wallet” etc. Ideally we just have “the wallet” and legacy wallets, I don’t think descriptor is relevant, nor should really leak into build docs.
<sipa>
fanquake: i'd expect most users building Bitcoin Core to want BDB support, for a few years at least
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<sipa>
you're right that it's wrong to say it's "needed for wallet support", but that's very different from saying people shouldn't have to care about it?
<fanquake>
sipa: not sure when I said that?
<sipa>
you literally said that just here
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<fanquake>
Yes, new users shouldn’t care?
<_aj_>
"Anyone building Core today, shouldn’t have to care, or know about BDB"
<fanquake>
Why would they use BDB wallets, which we are actively deprecating
<sipa>
are we?
<sipa>
there is huge difference between new users and everyone building bitcoin core
<_aj_>
(they might have been using pre-compiled binaries befor, and only now have started building themselves too)
<sipa>
hmm, that's a bit faster than i would have aimed for, but ok... we still intend to fully support bdb wallets until 2023 according to that
<sipa>
i'd expect most users today to find it surprising that they can't load their existing wallets when building with the recommemded procedure
<fanquake>
How to build with BDB is still going to be on the docs, just not spread all over the place, duplicating the same info.
<sipa>
i'm not objecting to that
<sipa>
only to removing it from the dependencies
<sipa>
i feel like actual deprecation (like this documentation change seems to be) and how, is a discussion to be had when there is an actual migration path
<fanquake>
It’s still going to be in depends, and have the script to build it as well
<sipa>
well, not everyone builds that way
<fanquake>
I don’t really no how we ended up with build docs that duplicate a list of our dependencies (separate from install instruction) in each build-* when we have a dependencies.md, although is a separate issue
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<sipa>
fanquake: that's fair, and i have no objection whatsoever to improving that
<sipa>
but i feel that someone just following build instruction, without following links to things marked as legacy, should end up with a binary that supports bdb wallets
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<_aj_>
#23168 was really what removed it from the build dependencies, no?
<fanquake>
No. That just removed the incredibly annoying behaviour of having configure fail if you didn’t have BDB installed, and weren’t passing —disable-wallet
<gjvc>
fanquake, yes. that was annoying. :-/
<fanquake>
A default configure invocation really shouldn’t fail if you’ve got the minimum required build dependencies installed, and don’t care about anything else.
<_aj_>
passing --disable-bdb-wallet would have let you do sqlite only wallets too. the difference is what happens when you run ./configure naively, and don't have bdb installed -- do you get an error forcing you to not be naive, or do you get a bitcoind that won't open your wallet?
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<_aj_>
s/would have/could have/
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<fanquake>
You’ll likely get a bitcoind that will open SQLite wallets, but not BDB
<fanquake>
It still warns in some cases, and will fail if you’ve exploited opted for BDB but don’t have the dependency
<fanquake>
*explicitly
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<_aj_>
yeah, i think for something as important as being able to open your old wallet, the default / implict behaviour should be "be able to open old wallets" unless you very explicitly opt-out (either with --disable-wallet or some --disable-bdb-wallet). otherwise you're going to give people heart attacks. just my opinion though, not my hill to die on
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<_aj_>
so if you don't opt-out but don't have the dependencies, should be an error
<_aj_>
(at configure time)
<fanquake>
But, for the most part, won’t all these people who have already been compiling, have the dependencies, and thus will get the correct wallet support
<_aj_>
maybe they switched to a new machine, or did an upgrade and lost some packages, or setup a new build chroot
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<_aj_>
maybe they weren't compiling and are just starting
<fanquake>
I don’t agree that having configure fail, by default, unless you install a maybe? “deprecated” dependency, or pass additional flags, is a good behaviour
<_aj_>
maybe their old system got hacked and they're setting up a new system hoping that the hacker didn't copy their wallet.dat or they can at least sweep their funds before the attacker cracks their password
<fanquake>
Especially not for a new user, or one that doesn’t care about the Core wallet etc
<_aj_>
i don't think using existing bdb wallets should be / is deprecated yet
<fanquake>
Right, so where do we draw the line for this then? Do we start hard failing of SQLite isn’t available too? To much the old behaviour?
<fanquake>
It sounds like we need more discussion in #20160 then. As that currently states that we are going to mark legacy bdb wallets as deprecated started with 23.0
<_aj_>
yeah, hard failing if you don't have sqlite dev and don't specify --disable-sqlite-wallet or --disable-wallet seems sensible to me if sqlite's the default going forward. same reasoning as --with-incompatible-bdb
<_aj_>
it says marking the creation of new legacy bdb wallets as deprecated, not using existing bdb wallets
<sipa>
having a migration tool also factors into this
<fanquake>
And when loading legacy warn that they will soon be unsupported
<_aj_>
presumably can't build the migration tool without bdb libraries available though?
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<_aj_>
fanquake: right, "soon be unsupported" ==> "currently completely supported"
<sipa>
building the migration tool doesn't as strongly depend on having bdb 4.8 though; it can use later versions too
<sipa>
which simplifies things somewhat
<fanquake>
_aj_ sure, and “deprecated” is somewhere in between those two
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<fanquake>
At least the failing without SQLite case is somewhat mitigated bu the fact that it is much more prevalent
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<_aj_>
fanquake: well, the version doesn't matter much for everything but bdb which is a bigger deal? otherwise it's just "you need to install boost, sqlite, bdb, etc; do that; run configure"
<sipa>
but if building the prospective migration tool will also require libdb, i'd say it's even more too early to not list libdb as a dependency anymore
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<laanwj>
yes, the migration tool could use any bdb version, it can open the database read-only or if that's not possible, make a copy then open it, to prevent the source file from becoming incompatible
<achow101>
fwiw, if you try to open a bdb wallet without having bdb compiled, you will be informed that BDB support was not compiled rather than a mysterious error
<achow101>
I also have a version of the migration tool that will work without bdb entirely
<laanwj>
that's neat, it does seem a bit more risky to me
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<laanwj>
e.g. when you'd be reimplementing bdb reading logic, you'd want to be really sure to not accidentally lose keys
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<achow101>
yeah. the idea is to first have a version that uses bdb, then later use the one without bdb. then we can test the bdb-less migration against the one with bdb using feature_backwards_compatibility.py (or something like that)
<laanwj>
sounds good to me
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<Guest75>
Hello.
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<Guest75>
#startmeeting
<Guest75>
I read a news that the source codes of Bitcoin will be removed from github, what is the truth of this?
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<shiza>
The migration tool supports incompatible bdb? Nice.
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<bitcoin-git>
[bitcoin] RandyMcMillan closed pull request #23449: contrib/install_db4.sh: http_get if tar.gz does not exist (master...install-db4-check) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23449
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<bitcoin-git>
[bitcoin] achow101 closed pull request #20096: wallet: Remove WalletDatabase refcounting and enforce only one Batch access the database at a time (master...rm-bdb-refcount) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20096
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